Data Mules Company Blog - Latest Comments

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Деян Добромиров — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 03:52:38 -0000

I use Lua to script Garry's mod specific stuff its quite useful

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Akshat Jiwan Sharma — Sun, 28 Jul 2013 06:54:54 -0000

There is text adept. I have not used emacs but the editor is very extensible and fast.

http://foicica.com/textadept/

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Craig — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 10:39:44 -0000

There's an ongoing effort to rewrite GNU Zile in Lua. Not just using Lua as the "extension language" but for actually writing the core editor too. There's one branch named "lua" that still implements a Lisp interpretter and there's another branch "zi" that scraps Lisp altogether with the intention of just using Lua.

The progress has kind of slowed down recently though.

Re: The Data Mules Blog

etandel — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:54:09 -0000

I do agree that Lua lacks a killer tool, such as a popular framework like Rails or a huge repository of libraries like CPAN. That being said, there are lots of applications that use Lua, not just WoW, but unfortunately most of it is closed source / not transparent enough. Here you'll find a huge list of such things: http://www.lua.org/uses.html

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Mymaillllllllllll — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 04:17:31 -0000

Lua sucks, dont talk too much!

Re: The Data Mules Blog

kinkfisher — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 03:27:32 -0000

I wouldn't blame you for not getting the claims... Claim language is more like a programming language that you have to learn rather than plain English, but it is not too bad to parse once you get the hang of it.

As an aside, the idea behind "auxiliary pointers" in that patent is that each node can have multiple "next" pointers, so that depending on how you select the "next" pointer, you can traverse the list in multiple different orders. A trivial example is a doubly linked list, but this patent generalizes that to N-ly linked list with N different traversal orders. It's not exactly groundbreaking, and IMO, it is much easier to have N separate linked lists rather than a single N-ly linked list, but the point was that the title is grossly misleading for programmers.

Regarding 2), I do think B&N misses out on impulse buys. As a converse anecdote, I avoid 1-click checkout to reduce impulse buys, and even if that fails, many times I've removed items from the cart when presented the final cost. The extra confirmation step forces me to evaluate whether the item is really worth the cost to me. I'd like to see any numbers Amazon has regarding the effect of 1-click, though.

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Nathan — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:21:01 -0000

The real issue with "1-click checkout" is that it's not an invention. It's not technology; it's a description of a business process. It would be like patenting "smile as the customer as you bag their groceries." That's not an innovation, it's just customer service.
An algorithm for predicting what people will buy based on their previous shopping and browsing patterns on your site compared with those of others could be an innovation. In that case, the algorithm, the strategy, is the secret sauce. "1-click checkout" could be implemented lots of ways, which shows that the technology isn't what's being patented.

The purpose of patents is to encourage innovation. If the realm of possibilities were a landscape, patents should reward people for exploring new land and bringing back resources for us all. "Business method patents" instead reward people for occupying a park and denying everyone else the use of it.

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Kevin T. Ryan — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:39:24 -0000

Hey - thanks for the comment. I did read the claims, but all I seemed to note was "auxiliary pointers" to allow you to traverse the list in a different order. Didn't seem all that novel to me, but maybe I didn't read it close enough?

Regarding 2), I think you are absolutely right - but my point was that even with a patent, B&N maneuvered around it pretty easily (I guess the question would then become, does requiring two clicks translate into decreased sales for B&N?).

Lastly, thanks for the pointer on the i4i case - I'll be researching that today! Thanks again.

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Antony — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:31:55 -0000

As an entrepreneur, I am not against software patents, as long as they are about software
algorithm, not a business process or some types of implementation
approach. One click to buy is a business process, and how to scale your database cloud is just an implementation approach. There are only so
many ways to do certain things. Filing them as patents actually can
stifle innovations, because you are forced to reinvent the wheels, start
from basics, instead of focusing on the meat of your business.

Now, with the patent-filing-trigger-happy-go-lucky mindset, it is pretty much the same as having your favorite programming language patented, locked away, so you are forced to build a language before building your apps.

Re: The Data Mules Blog

kinkfisher — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:24:46 -0000

1) Just because the title says "linked list" does not mean it's a patent on a linked list. I could invent a antigrav land-speeder and call the patent a "car". Titles are meaningless. Read the claims.

2) There's a reason Amazon sued to keep their 1-click advantage. Anecdotally, amongst people I know, Amazon regularly makes many sales that may not necessarily have been made thanks to the ease of 1-click checkout. See: impulse buying.

3) You may or may not have anything patentable, but as a developer of a plugin for an MS Office-related product, if not you are not already aware, you should familiarize yourself with the i4i case.

Re: The Data Mules Blog

François Chollet — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:52:43 -0000

Excellent points. And yet, the notion that "without patents, there would no innovation" is held as a universal truth everywhere. However nonsensical.

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Richard Bucker — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 09:57:15 -0000

To say that Lua embraces the do-it-yourself approach is silly. Every programming language started this way. That includes ruby... long before Rails. But while Lua has some nice attributes it lacks one thing. A killer app or a killer tool. Just because WoW uses it as a script language is not enough. Of course if we knew what the median age of most WoW script kiddies then we might be able to estimate the approximate time until Lua is a leader simply due to attrition.

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Krylon — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 07:35:36 -0000

I used to find Lua very interesting, but using it as a stand-alone scripting language somehow always felt ... well, uncomfortable. Weird.
Then, about a year ago I embarked on private (and totally useless) programming project, and I decided to write the bulk of the actual functionality in C and then embed a Lua interpreter and run Lua scripts to orchestrate it all. Worked like a charm. I have to agree, Lua's C API is exemplary in its simplicity, clarity and power. At one point, I wrote a module in Lua, was unhappy with its performance, then rewrote it in C - I didn't have to change a single line of Lua code, and worked correctly right from the start.
For a stand-alone "scripting" language, I prefer Python and Ruby, but as an extension language or for embedded scripting, Lua outshines the rest. It is not as feature-rich as the others, but the features it *does* have appear to be chosen very carefully and wisely.

Now, if only there was an Emacs-like text editor that used Lua instead of elisp as its customization/extension language, that would be really, really, REALLY cool...

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Gergely Imreh — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 03:17:49 -0000

Last year I was trying to learn a new programming language each month, Lua was among them and I had a really fun time using it. Always looking for a project where I could have more time with it.

http://gergely.imreh.net/bl...

Re: The Data Mules Blog

David Warman — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 02:30:35 -0000

Very interesting. I am right now in the process of looking at Lua to embed in my applications. For many years now my standard embedded scripting for (primarily) debugging and prototyping has been a C implementation of FORTH, but I'm finding newcomers shy away from its unfamiliarity. So Lua. Hopefully I never have to squeeze my scripting engine into 64K ever again :)

With regard to the strange perception that just because a language is targeted as an "embedded" language it is somehow not a real language: what? Did you sleep during your CS classes? The difference between an embedded-appropriate and a desktop language is like RISC vs CISC: orthogonally separated concerns vs a large array of intermingled complex special purpose entities. Both are Turing-complete, but the embedded side is oriented towards run-time efficiency, customization, and extension*, whereas the other side attempts to give you everything you might need for any application all at once with run-time efficiency much lower in the priority ladder.

* FORTH embodies these concepts. So far, it looks like Lua does too. But not JavaScript, Perl, Python, Ruby, etc, all primarily targeted at WML systems with lots of resources.

Especially, thanks for the LuaJIT reference.

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Brian — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 01:56:48 -0000

The usual way to do this with an object in Python is with the getattr() global function. ex:

x = math.sin

could be accessed from a variable:

function = "sin"
x = getattr(math, function)

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Aptwebapps — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 23:17:32 -0000

I'm with Derp in that I don't understand the difference. In either language (warning: I'm totally new to Lua) if you import a module you can then access it's members. What's the issue?

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Miles Bader — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 23:00:43 -0000

I think it's safe to say that Lua has traditionally been widely used as an embedded language, and that's something of a sweet spot for it (because of its light weight and very well-thought-out interface to C).

But of course it is a general purpose language, and can be used that way quite nicely too. Note that what the Lua distribution builds, if you type "make", is a standalone program called "lua"... :]

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Miles Bader — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 22:57:53 -0000

Lua/LuaJIT actually can be goaded into playing well with C++ exceptions, but it takes a bit of futzing around.

Really, it does actually integrate wonderfully with C++; I've been extremely pleased with it in that respect (I use LuaJIT and SWIG for the bulk of my interfaces).

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Kingloong — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:49:49 -0000

Thanks for your suggestion!As you said,I want to use a scripting language in my application.I will study Lua.

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Kevin T. Ryan — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:36:51 -0000

Right - I was not suggesting anything with regards to how it is primarily used. I was just trying to say that there is *no reason* that it needs to be primarily used as an embedded language (whether it is or is not is a different question).

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Kevin T. Ryan — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:33:56 -0000

Good point! But I think what he was saying was that they built Lua so it would be easy to embed. He then goes on to say that the lua interpreter has allowed us to use Lua up to that point (chapter 24 of the book) as a standalone throughout the entire book.

What I was really trying to get across, though, was why you may want to consider using Lua in your projects (as opposed to answering the actual question asked on the mailing list :)).

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Kevin T. Ryan — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:27:25 -0000

Great point! I haven't used the FFI much yet, but plan on trying it out over the next few months.

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Kevin T. Ryan — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:26:44 -0000

I think it depends on what you will be using it for. If you are using C++ (as your comment suggests) and you want to use a scripting language in your application, I would highly recommend Lua. If you are writing something that needs a lot of "built in functionality" (e.g., socket support, file traversing, etc.) then Python might be better. If you are willing to spend some time finding your own modules (and don't need it "built in" per se) and have a "do it yourself" attitude, I don't think you can go wrong with Lua. Hope that helps!

Re: The Data Mules Blog

Kevin T. Ryan — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:23:46 -0000

Not sure I follow? In Lua, there is no "introspection" per se. If I `require` some module / file, the result (assuming the programmer built the library the way you would expect) is a table. Thus, there is no special syntax or functions to get at the underlying functions and data. Whereas in Python, it's not quite as simple. Maybe I misunderstood your comment?